Martha Tsutsui Billins (host): Hello, and welcome to Field Notes, a podcast about linguistic fieldwork. I’m Martha Tsutsui Billins, and today’s episode is with Jaime Pérez González. Jaime is a Tseltal speaker, researcher, writer and translator from Tenango, Chiapas, Mexico. He is a PhD candidate in linguistics at the University of Texas at Austin. He has earned his master’s degree in American Indian linguistics at the Center for Research and Higher Studies in Social Anthropology, and his MA thesis won the 2013 Wigberto Jiménez Moreno Prize, awarded by Mexico’s National Institute of Anthropology and History for the best master’s thesis in linguistics. Since 2008, he has worked on different Tseltal language documentation projects as a collaborator, a research assistant and as a researcher. Among the topics he has worked on during these projects are dialectology and lexicography. He started working on Mocho’, a related Mayan language, in 2015, and he is currently the Principal Investigator on the project “Documentation of Mocho’ (Mayan): Language Preservation through Community Awareness and Engagement” sponsored by the Endangered Language Documentation Programme.
So this interview was really exciting to record. Jaime has done a lot of fieldwork, and what I found so interesting about his experience is, he’s done fieldwork in two really different scenarios. So he’s done fieldwork in his own native language, Tseltal, with his own family and community where he was born, his hometown, and he’s also worked in a community where he was an outsider, Mocho’, and hearing him talk about his experience with Mocho’ was so fascinating to me. I feel like we don’t often hear so many stories about people who go to communities where the community is reluctant to work with the researcher but in the end the community and the researcher are able to come to an understanding and both are happy with the research. So I really enjoyed hearing Jaime’s perspective on this and how he’s built up his relationship with the Mocho’ community, and also his work in his own native language, and yeah, overall, I just think that this was such a great interview. It’s so clear that Jaime is such a good person and such a good researcher, and I’m really excited for this interview to be shared with the listeners.
MTB: Jaime, thank you so much for coming onto Field Notes and for making time for this interview today. To start, can I ask you: How did you first become interested in linguistics?
Jaime Pérez González: Yes, hi, Martha. Thank you for the invitation, and I’m really glad to be here. My first approach to linguistics was through literature. I grew up bilingual, Tseltal and Spanish speaker, so I was really into translation since I was a kid. I wanted to understand, you know, the structure of Spanish, but also the structure of Tseltal, which was, is the language that I also grew up with, and I started to look at these, you know, tiny differences between Tseltal and Spanish, and I wanted to know more, so I studied literature, Hispanic language and literatures, in my bachelor’s. I wanted, actually, to do some sort of translation, you know, for my BA thesis, but then I was looking at these concepts for feelings, emotions, in Tseltal that they were very different to what we have in Spanish. So I wanted to look more on into that area, but then I just realized I didn’t know anything about my language. I didn’t know anything about Tseltal (the structure, the grammar), so I said, “Okay, I think, first, I need to understand, you know, how this language actually works to describe it better.” So I started, and I contacted this linguist at CIESAS Sureste in Mexico in Chiapas, and I told him about my project that I wanted to write this BA thesis, and he said: “Okay, I’m going to help you, but I don’t know anything about what you want to write, so if you want to write something about linguistics, then I’ll be really happy to help you out.” So I said, “Okay, but first I need to understand grammar because I know nothing, basically, about Tseltal grammar,” so I started to look at his grammar. He is the author of this awesome grammar in Tseltal, so, yeah, I jumped into Tseltal, and then I just was fascinated about what I was, you know, finding in Tseltal, so I just said: “Okay, I think I’m going to describe something about, you know, more related with the grammar.” So yeah, I started as a linguist, basically.
MTB: Yeah, that’s amazing, so it was kind of just like a happy accident that you started in literature, and then your interest in literature kind of led you into linguistics.
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah, and I… Yeah, I’m still fascinated about literature, but I consider myself more as a linguist now than, you know, a literature critic or something.
MTB: Can you give an example, like what you were speaking earlier, about how the language to express emotions is really different?
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah. Basically, I was interested on these concepts of, you know, like ‘happy,’ ‘sad,’ in terms to express these sort of emotions in Tseltal because when we say ‘happy’ in Spanish, we just say, like, you know, a literal translation of ‘happy,’ what we have in English, feliz, or triste for sad, but the construction in Tseltal is a bit different because you take a part of your body and then you refer to it when you are either sad or happy. So, for example, to say “I am happy,” you would say something like ak’ol ko’tan, which means something like “My heart is up” or something like that. So when you say “I am sad,” you would say “My heart is lying on a surface,” basically. So ot’an. So yeah, these sort of things that I was kind of intrigued because I was like, “Why do we have to refer to ot’an,” which is this part, heart, “when we, when we talk about emotions,” you know. And sometimes you actually say, for example, when you say, “I’m angry,” you would refer to your stomach or something like that, like… Things like that, so I was just like. “Oh, why is this different?” You know, like, and I wanted to understand more about, basically, the neurolinguistics of emotions.
MTB: Yeah, that’s so interesting. I love things like that. I know in Persian when you want to express endearment, you say like, “You’re my liver.”
Jaime Pérez González: Uh-huh. Yeah.
MTB: I think that’s so interesting.
Jaime Pérez González: And also, I was interested because I read this dissertation… It’s a dissertation written about Yucatec Mayan, which is another Mayan language, and he wrote this doctoral dissertation about colonial terms for emotions in Yucatec Mayan, and he said something like, “You know, it was not actually the heart that was used in Mayan, in Yucatec Mayan, before the Spaniards came to this area,” so I was kind of intrigued about that, you know, because in Tseltal everything is about heart — either happy, sadness, anything — but he said it was not actually the heart that was, you know, the organ that was important for Mayan people, but something, you know, like the stomach or, you know, like, some other organs and I was like, “Okay, I have to look at this in deep and see what actually happens in Tseltal.” And now that I’m working in Mocho’, I actually corroborated that hypothesis, that, you know, this Gabriel Bourdin (his name) wrote about — his dissertation — because in Mocho’ we don’t actually have a term for ‘heart’ like we do have in other Mayan languages, and the reference, the main organ that’s referenced when we have these emotions, is actually the stomach or a part of the stomach, or the liver, you know, or the gallbladder. So it’s really amazing to see how, you know, like it’s not actually the heart that’s, you know, in the center of emotions, but the different parts of your body depending on what the emotion is, you know?
MTB: Yeah, that’s so amazing. That’s so interesting. So do you think… Maybe this question is like so way out there, but do you think that, like comparing to Mocho’ where it’s all about the stomach and the liver and like other things, do you think it was always about the heart, or do you think that’s like some colonial influence that has shifted the phrasing?
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah, actually… Well, I started, and hopefully I’ll finish sometime soon, a paper about, you know, these differences that we have at least in these two different languages, about emotions, because in Mocho’ is, I think, one of the languages where there… Well, we don’t have descriptions like, you know, colonial descriptions about Mocho’, so we don’t know for sure. What we know is that when they have this ritual speech, which are very traditional and they haven’t changed that much because these Mocho’ people did not have that influence of, you know, the religion or Catholicism in this area, so they still keep these very nice constructions where they refer to these certain parts of their body to refer to these different emotions, and if we look at in Tseltal, like these emotions are, of course, like, more referred to ot’an, which is the heart, but what I think is actually that this is maybe a Western influence, these constructions that came after. And we see that because when we go to this ritual speech in prayers, for example, you will still find those, like, constructions. Of course, like we don’t use them now, you know, in our everyday life because we actually don’t know them, but if we look at this very traditional speech, then we can still find some traces there. So I think it’s some sort of maybe a post-colonial thing that developed either by Western influence or by something else. But I’m not certain about what exactly happened there.
MTB: Yeah, so in the fixed registers, like the old ritual speech that nobody uses as much today, that you still see references to other organs, but then today, when people actually speak they’re talking about the heart. Is that right?
Jaime Pérez González: Exactly, and you see also that, because the construction of heart, the word for ‘heart’ in Mayan languages will differ in all of them, like not… There is no, like a proto-word for ‘heart’ that would be shared in these emotional terms, so that is also another clue that tells us that in fact there was something that actually made these languages to develop its own term for ot’an, but in Mocho’ there is no term for ot’an. What they do is, they took the term alma, which is from Spanish, and it means ‘soul’ or ‘spirit,’ and that is the term they use in Mocho’, in the modern Mocho’. So it’s like, okay, so there is no term for ot’an, for ‘heart,’ in Mocho’, and that tells us, you know, something about not being a word that was a center of the emotions in this language.
MTB: Yeah. That’s so interesting. That’s really cool.
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah. So yeah, that’s actually my first approach to linguistics, you know, to understand these sort of constructions that were quite different in Tseltal and Spanish.
MTB: Can you share a bit about the Tseltal language context?
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah, sure. Well, Tseltal is a Mayan language, and it’s… Well, there are two main branches of Mayan languages. One is like the Quichean and Mamean, and then there is the Qʼanjobalan and Tseltalan on languages. So Tseltal belongs to this other branch, and Tseltal is certainly spoken in the southeast of Mexico, mainly in the state of Chiapas, but of course we find also some diasporas throughout Mexico in different states, mainly in Mexico City, but also here in the United States, but yeah. It’s mainly spoken in Chiapas, the state of Chiapas, and it has around more than a half a million speakers. So it’s quite… In Chiapas, it’s the main Indigenous language spoken, and it is the second or third in Mexico. It’s the second Mayan language spoken, what’s spoken in in Mexico after Yucatec Mayan.
MTB: Does it have recognition or any support in Mexico, or is it not recognized?
Jaime Pérez González: Recently it’s been proposed that any Indigenous language in Mexico would potentially be, you know, recognized officially, but of course, you know, like, it is recognized that in terms of, you know, education and official issues or, you know, use of this Tseltal is not yet in that level, but yeah, there are many, many people who are working on, you know, this promotion or this sort of — in any way that they can actually make Tseltal one of the, you know, official languages, at least in Chiapas.
MTB: Can you speak a little bit about how your work with Tseltal has differed or compared to your work with Mocho’?
Jaime Pérez González: When I first started, you know, in linguistics, I started to look at these sort of emotions and stuff, so I work in expressive predicates in Tseltal and ideophones, because this is also a way of expressing some sort of expressivity in Tseltal. So I worked on that, and it was more like a descriptive work. I continued this work until my master’s working on Tseltal, and I, of course, worked also as a documenter or, you know, in dialectology and some other topics. But now I am mainly focused on descriptive linguistics again in Mocho’, but I’m also working on, you know, stuff related with language documentation and language revitalization. I’m interested in language revitalization because since 2015, I started to work with Mocho’, and Mocho’ has very few speakers. It has around 45 speakers left.
MTB: Oh, wow.
Jaime Pérez González: So it is really necessary to work on these kind of projects, because it’s urgent [unclear 17:21] and I’m trying to work collaboratively with some speakers to, you know, promote the language and teach the language. So that’s one of our main goal, you know, a short-term goal.
MTB: Yeah. Can you tell us more about the collaborative aspect of your research that you just mentioned, like teaching Mocho’, and can you tell us more about that?
Jaime Pérez González: Well, when I first went to Motozintla, where Mocho’ is spoken, I really had… I had a very hard time because there are few speakers, and they all are elders, you know. The youngest speaker is 72 years old, and the rest are above, so it’s kind of, you know, very difficult to work with them. And the first challenge I found in Motozintla was that these people were, you know, against their own language in terms of, they did not want to teach their language. They were very reluctant to work with researchers, and I didn’t understand, you know, why they were actually acting like that. But I was insisting. I insisted a lot and I tried to learn the language myself with data that we have at AILLA, the Archive of Indigenous languages of Latin America here at UT Austin. So I looked at these documents that we have there and I tried to learn some Mocho’ before I went to the field, but people were really like, you know, against working with researchers, so I was like, “I want to work with you, but if I can’t, then I’m just going to give up. I want to work with this language, but if I can’t, then I’m just going to work with Tseltal, which is my native, one of my native languages.”
So I found this speaker, Teodoso Ortiz Ramírez, who is my main professor, my main teacher, language teacher, and he is the one who has been working with me since then, and he was like, “Okay, if no one wants to work with you, I can work with you.” He was really, really polite and very helpful in that first trip. It was just like an explorative trip because I didn’t know the area, so I just wanted to see how the situation was, how, you know, the place and everything.
I remember my first trip was in 2014 to Motozintla. When I came back to Austin, I was like, “I’m just going to give up and I’m going to work on Tseltal. These people are just like, ‘Go, go away, go learn English. Go learn French,’” and things like that. So I was like, “Okay.” They were like, “No, this language is useless. We’re not going to, you know, teach this language. It’s going to die, so, you know, just go. Go away.” But this person, Teodoso, was just awesome and I said, “Okay, if I want to work, I will work with him, and, you know, I will just try to work with him.” But anyways, I came back to Austin. I was very frustrated. I was sad. I was, you know, very angry with myself, because I was like, “Why the hell I want to, you know, go through this situation?” Anyways, I then, that year, I actually recorded some stuff with don Teodoso, and I came back to Austin, and I just played them over and over again to try to learn the language, to try to get these sounds and, of course, learn some grammar, and that was my task for that year. And then I said, “If I get so much this year, I’ll go back next year and see what people’s reaction will be,” you know. And I went back and it was like, “Okay. If they don’t want to work with me, I’m going to go to Tuzantlán, where it’s another dialect of Mocho’,” and there are only… Back then, there were like 10 speakers. Now there are like five speakers. So I said, “If these people don’t want to work with me, I’m going to go to Tuzantlán, and I’m going to work with those speakers left there.”
Anyways, I went back to Motozintla and I just started to talk to people, and, you know, to understand why they were like very, very mean to me before. And the good thing, what I think was a good thing I did was that I got to their places speaking Mocho’. The first… From the street. I was just saying ‘hi’ to them in Mocho’, and, you know, like trying to speak my poor Mocho’ or my ungrammatical Mocho’, and they were really surprised, you know, that I was already able to speak some Mocho’, and they were like, “Who did, you know… Who was the person who taught you?” And I was like, “Oh, I learned it by myself. I got some files on this archive and I just started to look at them and I wanted to learn this language.” And they were like, “Oh, but how could you do that?” And I was like, “Because I had these recordings and I had this transcription, so I just read through and tried to learn some grammar.” And they were like, “Oh, my gosh, so you were really interested in this language?” And I was like, “Yes,” and they were like, “Why don’t you go and learn French? Why don’t you go and learn English?” And I was like, “I already know English, and I’m not interested in French.” So it’s like, “I want to learn this language.” And they were like, “Oh, so you’re really into it.” And I’m like, “Yes. And if you want to teach me, it’s okay, and if you don’t want to teach me, I found this person who is, you know, very nice and supportive, so I’m going to work with him.” And they were like, “Okay.”
So I started to work with this person, one person, and then I went to another person and tried to work with more than one person, because that was my goal, to try to include more, as many as I could. Of course, those who were still able to work with us in these projects because, as I said, they are elders and they have some sort of issues, health issues. So you cannot work with many, but, you know, at least five, ten. It was still possible. So that year, I convinced don Teodoso that we had to work to do something, you know, publicly to try to get people’s attention, and, you know, because the idea was also to teach Mocho’, and people there in this part of Chiapas is very against Indigenous languages, because discrimination has been very… I mean, in many parts, in many, I think in every part of Mexico, but here specifically because this was the only like minority group that was, that’s still, you know, it’s still alive and they are still speaking their language, because some other languages are actually gone around this area. It’s very interesting because this part also was an area that was part of Guatemala in the early 1800s, so it became part of Mexico in the late 1800s, so it became part of Mexico, but it also had so many laws against Indigenous languages. That’s why actually Mocho’ has very few speakers right now.
But anyways, I talked to these people, and I convinced them to work with me, and that first year in 2015, we had a summer camp, but what we did was to invite people from all over the world, basically. Like we went to San Cristóbal. San Cristóbal de las Casas is a very touristic city and we promoted that summer camp there because it’s a very, it’s an international place, you know, where people from all over the world comes, and it was a success. Like white people, or gringos (as we call them in in Spanish), came to Motozintla, and the local people were really surprised about, you know, why these gringos or white people want to learn this useless language, you know, that nobody wants to learn. So I think that actually helped us to enhance the language, to make it visible there, and to say: “Okay, this language is actually important. If it is not important for you as a local person, it is important for them, for some other people, you know, that they value and they recognize the importance of this language.” So when… In this summer camp I talked to many people, you know, as many as I could, speakers of Mocho’, and of course, the first day there were only three speakers, you know, in this summer camp. The second day, we got like 10 speakers, and, you know, the third day there were like more speakers, so it was really amazing to see how these people came together.
MTB: Yeah. Definitely. That’s really interesting, so I think that ties in really nicely to the next thing I wanted to ask you about, which is: How has your experience of working with your own native language… I mean, I know you mentioned that Tseltal has like half a million speakers, right? So it’s actually a huge…
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah.
MTB: … huge number of people. So have you worked with your own community, or do you work with other communities? I guess what I’m wondering is like, your experience of being an insider linguist versus very much an outsider, it sounds like, with Mocho’, how has that compared for you?
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah. As I said, it was a challenge to go to Motozintla. Well, it wasn’t a challenge to go, because it was easy, but to get to work with people was the challenge. Comparing it to Tseltal, of course, it’s totally different because Tseltal, you know, it’s a vital language. Everybody speaks Tseltal in my community. There is actually a 99% of Tseltal speakers. There are very few who don’t speak the language nowadays. Because when I was growing up, everybody’s spoke Mocho’. No one, not a single person…
MTB: Mocho’, or Tseltal?
Jaime Pérez González: Tseltal, sorry. Tseltal. So everybody spoke Tseltal, even my mom. My mom is not a Tseltal person. She came to this town because she married my dad, but she learned Tseltal. So in Tseltal, you would be actually ashamed if you wouldn’t speak Tseltal, you know. So everybody speaks Tseltal there, and working with, you know, as a linguist, working with my own community was quite easy, also because my grandfather was a deacon, so it was a very…
MTB: High prestige.
Jaime Pérez González: High-prestige person in town, so people really knew him. And, of course, they knew us because we were also the only family in town who were like sort of mestizo family, you know, a non-Indigenous woman with my father, who was from the town, so we were well known there. And when I became a linguist, everybody knew me. Everybody… Of course, I left my community when I was like 12 years old to go to study middle school in Ocosingo because in my town there was no middle school back then, so I had to move to a city to start my middle school, and then I came back, you know… Of course, I visited my family every now and then because we literally moved to Ocosingo like for our entire life, but I still went back, you know, to visit my family, so they knew me, but they didn’t know what I was doing. So when I became a linguist and I went back to my community, I just needed to say: “Oh, okay, I am the grandchild of this person or my mom is doña Elvira, you know, like the non-Tseltal woman who lived here,” and she was well known because she was also a baker, so she had a bakery. So, you know, she was like very well known. Anyways, and they were like, “Oh, you’re Jaime. Oh, you’ve changed a lot,” so I was like, “Yeah, and I’m here. I’m a linguist, so I’m doing this,” and, you know, like trying to explain what I was doing. And it was quite easy, so to be honest, to get to go and work with my community, it was quite easy. Everybody wanted to work, and everybody wanted to work for free. You know, like everybody just wanted to be there to be part of what I was doing, and of course I couldn’t include everybody, but I did what I could.
The first time I actually brought a person, a white person, taller than me, you know, like this not-Indigenous prototype or not Mexican either, so they were like… That was the only issue I had because I brought that person in the town with me, and they were like, “Why are you bringing that person?” You know, and it’s like, “We’re going to help you, but not this guy,” because we were actually… Back then, I was also part of a project of dialectology, Tseltal dialectology, so I had, you know, this person came with me, he is also a linguist. So people did not expect me to bring this person, so the reaction were sort of like, “Okay, now we are doubting about, you know, what you’re doing. Maybe you are actually selling our language. Maybe you are actually, you know, making money out of this, what you are doing. We were helping you because we thought it is for you and it was for your studies.” And then I had to convince them, of course, about what we were doing there as worker in this project and then what I was doing previously for my fieldwork for my bachelor thesis, so yeah. That was like a long conversation, and I had to convince them that I wasn’t actually selling the language as they, you know, say. And of course, when I worked with them as my own fieldwork, I paid them, but they didn’t accept. So what I did was to give them, you know, like some sort of a gift in exchange, but when we got there with this person, we had to pay, and I told this person, “Okay, we’re here as a project, so we have to pay them. We’re not giving them gifts. We have to tell them that this is actually part of a project,” so I explained them everything so they knew about the difference where I’m working in a project and when I’m doing my own fieldwork just as collecting data for my thesis. So that was the only issue I had, but then I, of course, work in different other communities, Tseltal communities. And again, it was easy because I speak Tseltal, so approaching them speaking their language is easier for them to value you as a person that is actually interested. Even though you are not a Tseltal person, if you are a linguist who speaks the language or any person who speaks the language, they will actually value for that as well.
But so yeah, and with Tseltal, it’s different because you can work with any Tseltal speaker, even in San Cristóbal. You know, San Cristóbal de las Casas is this very touristic city. You find diasporas there, many people living there, so if you want to work with any people there, you can do that. It’s not necessary to go to a very specific place to work with Tseltal, because you can find speakers of Tseltal or of any dialect of Tseltal in San Cristóbal de las Casas. So it’s quite easy to find speakers wherever you are basically in this in Chiapas.
But with Mocho’ it’s not the same, because the speakers are only in Motozintla. Well, there are some people who left Motozintla. There are, for example, there is a person I know in Tapachula, which is another city, but she doesn’t speak Mocho’, and she left Motozintla when she was like 16 when she got married. So she never spoke Mocho’ after, you know, moving, getting married there. The speakers of Mocho’ are just there in Motozintla and some other tiny towns, and they are elders. So you have to go there. You have to work with them there, and it’s not actually like… In these meetings that I mentioned before, you have to go and pick them because they are elders, so they cannot like go out by themselves, so you are also a driver there. You know?
Jaime Pérez González: Like it’s not like you are the linguist. You are also a driver. You are also the person who take care of this person, because if they go with you, you are in charge of this person, you know. So it’s like, okay. So yeah, it’s quite different, and, of course, you know, getting data from the speakers, as you may know, it’s quite different because when you do elicitation, they get bored. Like in five minutes, they will like…
MTB: Or distracted.
Jaime Pérez González: Exactly, like they are like, “Why are you asking me this?” You know, like, “This is boring,” or if you tell them like, “Repeat this three times,” it’s like, “Oh, why? No, you already recorded once. That’s it.” So things like that and you still explain them. You try your best to explain them why you’re doing this and why you are asking them to repeat three times, but they do it once and then, like the second time, it’s like okay, just one, one time, and things like that. So it’s very, it’s a challenge. Really, it’s very challenging to, you know, try to work with them, and especially this sort of like elicitation lists or words or phrases, because they won’t understand. Even if they understand, they will just like be… They won’t care about what you’re doing. So what I’ve tried to do now is, as I said, is just to get as much as, a spontaneous corpus I get, you know, from these speakers, so I try just to make them speak or have conversations or tell stories about things, and then I can just… With this youngest speaker, this is the only person who actually can like give you very, very meta-linguistic explanation about certain things, and that’s like that’s very awesome, because, you know, like with the rest of the speakers, it’s very difficult to work with, you know, but this guy is just awesome because he can tell you, you know, the difference between this derivation or that, or derivation. So that is actually the person who has been my teacher, but also like co-author of this grammar that I’m writing about Mocho’ now.
MTB: Yeah. That’s such a good point. I feel like it’s hard to appreciate until you’re actually there how rare it is for people to have meta-linguistic awareness. Like they might speak a language, but to actually be able to think about the differences between two phrases or, you know, “Well, why is it like that?” Like it’s actually really tough, in my experience, as well. Like I was lucky enough to meet a few people who had that very high meta-linguistic awareness, but a lot of other people, like you said, they didn’t care about elicitation. They didn’t want to do interviews, but they were fine if I just wanted to hang around and record them, you know, talking to their friends or talking to their families. That was okay. I could do that all day long, they didn’t care, but for like a 10-word elicitation? Forget it, no way.
Jaime Pérez González: Yeah. Yeah, it’s actually… Yeah, that’s exactly what happens, like people just, you know…
MTB: Totally. Yeah. Okay, well, thank you, Jaime, so much for sharing your experiences with us. Where can our listeners learn more about you or find you online if they’re interested in your research?
Jaime Pérez González: Well, so far I only have Academia, which is like the page where I share some of my stuff about the research I’ve done and written about Tseltal and Mocho’, but in terms of the documentation, we have this project at ELAR, at the Endangered Language Archive, and yeah, so that’s basically the two places where I think I have stuff.
MTB: Awesome, and I’ll link your deposit and your Academia page so people can find it in the show notes if they’re interested. Oh, thank you so much.
Jaime Pérez González: Well, thank you, Martha, and it was really nice to talk to you.
MTB: Yeah, you too.
You’ve been listening to Field Notes, a podcast about linguistic fieldwork. This podcast is hosted and produced by Martha Tsutsui Billins with production help from Laura Tsutsui. Our music is by Lobo Loco, and our logo is by E.Vill Designs. If you have a question or a fieldwork experience to share, you can email us at email@example.com. You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram @lingfieldnotes. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please leave us an Apple Podcast review. Thanks for listening!